Native English Speakers only

[Madam H]

On something funny that I remembered back during my early days teaching in Thailand, when I was teaching in the english program of a Thai school in Bangkok... I met a teacher there (yes, a native speaker from England). He was much older than I was, probably in his 50's, I think. We were having a workshop, and then came a point where the head of our department was asking each of us how many syllables were there in each of our names.

His name was John. And when his turn to answer came, for the love of God, he didn't have a clue what "syllables" meant! He said, "Two...one!" He was just trying to guess based on what others before him answered.

And a few months later, he had an issue with the boss. The boss, who was also English, phoned the school where he said he got his degree from, and voila! He was found out! He didn't graduate from that school, and so, he was fired!

Lesson learned? DON'T PICK FIGHTS WITH YOUR BOSS! (especially if your degree is a fake one).

[Madam H]

I have been following this thread ever since. I want to post my comments but oftentimes I am overcomed by the fear that my opinion will be negatively criticized by other ESL/EFL professionals who have better knowledge than myself. But as I've read you comments, I saw how you help each other in resolving the issue about non-native versus english-native speakers. Anywhere in Thailand, the issue is very hot even in the smallest province of the country where I am teaching. But I guess, as Filipinos, we can do something about this issue since Filipinos are in the majority of  ESL/EFL teachers of Thailand.

I am a neophyte in the ESL/EFL arena and even in teaching. I graduated last March 2006 and I never expected that months after my graduation, I will be in Thailand to join the ESL/EFL teaching force. My course is Bachelor in Secondary Education major in Mathematics. After my graduation, I immediately got a teaching job in a private secondary school in the Philippines and taught Mathematics and English. After three months of teaching in the said school, I decided to go to Thailand.

I know so many Filipinos have stories like mine or worse than mine. The good thing there, is we have SIAMPINOY. I hope that the informations we are posting here will be a great help to each Filipino teacher in Thailand. I have read some posts at www.ajarn.com and I feel so sad to know that Filipinos are hitting each other. Guys, nobody can love the Filipinos better than the Filipinos themselves. Let us help each other!

We are also learning in the process.  I'm a Doctorate student and I am specializing in language education. And this is what a doctorate student has to say:  The real score in TESL/TEFL is not on how much you know about the different mind-boggling language theories BUT it's HOW YOU DO YOUR JOB AS A LANGUAGE TEACHER IN THE CLASSROOM! And TIME...years of experience and  open-mindedness NOT BOOKS gradually help US become better and more competent language  teachers. 

Just to illustrate the point you are making here, Erick... I have a friend, a Filipina, who works in an international school. She told me that they have a phonics-based program that's gaining popularity among other international schools in Bangkok. But guess what?!

The author of that program (a native speaker) did not have a degree to start with. But he is doing something about it now - he's taking courses to get certified. I think that's one example of real-world experience winning over theories!

But just my own personal opinion, based on what I have seen over the years in the different language learning environments in Thailand... I think the two should go hand in hand. Looking back into my Nursing school years, it would be next to impossible to diagnose, plan and manage a disease if one does not know the Pathophysiology (excuse the term) of it.

Applied to the teaching setting, I think it is very important to have a solid background on the theories, especially on how language is acquired and/or learned, as well as the factors that play a role on how effective the learning (and the teaching) is. When we design our lessons, we always, always have to ask ourselves WHY we are doing this and not that? Why this activity, and why in this certain order?

There always has to be a rationale to every single step in the lesson plan. And this is where theories come in. But, what kind of theories?

I think we are touching here on another would-be controversial subject in this thread! I don't have the statistics to prove this, but this idea was born out of discussions with Master J and another friend, Noods. America (and therefore, native speakers, in general) oftentimes is effective in selling herself as an authority on something simply because she has the stats to back up claims. I think this holds true among teachers as well.

I learned to document and back up everyhting I do in the classroom, and to give respect to researched-based materials from my mentors and colleagues, many of them, are native speakers. But when I have conversations with my fellow Pinoys (especially those way older than I am), talk about effective teaching practices center on gut feeling. You would normally hear something like, "Ganito ang gawin mo. It works! Ang tagal-tagal ko nang ginagawa yan."

'Talk about giving man a fish, and not teaching him how to fish...

Don't get me wrong... there are things that work for years, and I also believe in the thinking that "if it ain't broke, don't fix it"!

But what I'm trying to say here is, facts and figures change over time, and since teaching is dynamic, we should also go with the tides. Take for example, it has been an accepted fact for many years that our brain cells, once dead, don't regenerate anymore. But guess what, new research says, oh yes Jose, they do regenerate!

There are age-old theories on pedagogy that every person who dares call himself/herself an educator should know. But it is also a responsibility on our part to keep abreast of the latest on how learning and teaching happen effectively today. And hopefully, the things we learn from our students, from our colleagues and from our own experiences are kept somewhere handy, ready to be used whenever the need arises.

Being a teacher is both a gift and a responsibility. One look from a teacher could make or wound an individual. In one study (don't have the book with me. Noods, help!), research has shown that an effective teacher will produce effective students (it does not matter that the school they are in is considered to be an ineffective one in general). At the end of the day, it is the teacher who matters in a  student's life. Studies also show that a teacher exerts an impact and influence on a student, three years after that student has been under that particular teacher, irregardless of how the student's experience is like with the teachers who follow.

[Madam H]

I have been following this thread ever since. I want to post my comments but oftentimes I am overcomed by the fear that my opinion will be negatively criticized by other ESL/EFL professionals who have better knowledge than myself. But as I've read you comments, I saw how you help each other in resolving the issue about non-native versus english-native speakers. Anywhere in Thailand, the issue is very hot even in the smallest province of the country where I am teaching. But I guess, as Filipinos, we can do something about this issue since Filipinos are in the majority of  ESL/EFL teachers of Thailand.

I am a neophyte in the ESL/EFL arena and even in teaching. I graduated last March 2006 and I never expected that months after my graduation, I will be in Thailand to join the ESL/EFL teaching force. My course is Bachelor in Secondary Education major in Mathematics. After my graduation, I immediately got a teaching job in a private secondary school in the Philippines and taught Mathematics and English. After three months of teaching in the said school, I decided to go to Thailand.

I know so many Filipinos have stories like mine or worse than mine. The good thing there, is we have SIAMPINOY. I hope that the informations we are posting here will be a great help to each Filipino teacher in Thailand. I have read some posts at www.ajarn.com and I feel so sad to know that Filipinos are hitting each other. Guys, nobody can love the Filipinos better than the Filipinos themselves. Let us help each other!

Josephil, you are in a much better position than I was when I started! At least, your major is in education, albeit in mathematics. Mine was in Nursing

I guess what matters most is not how much we know about a subject, or about teaching as a whole, for that matter. It's about how willing we are to learn, and I know you have been trying to get your hands on every workshop or conference you hear about that's related to teaching English so you learn more about your current assignment.

Just don't lose that hunger to learn more...

It is when we say we know enough that learning stops!

[TARSIER]

Thanks for your advice Madamme H and erick. I am so  overwhelmed knowing that I am talking to experienced and eager-to-share professionals. With your years of experience, I know can get something more from you. I am planning to take-up TESOL course this coming semester. Do you have any advice before I will spend some amount for the course? I know I can get something from you Sir and Ma'am.

For now I am trying my best to be a good if not the best language teacher. Thanks again!!! I hope you could post something under ESL/EFL Teaching ideas.

[erick]

Glad you could join us, Josephil!

YES! YES! YES! The reason why Siam Pinoy was started in the first place is so we may all have a voice. For now, let's not give energy and time to "other" things happening elsewhere that, in a way, give Pinoys a bad name. To focus on positive activities and discussions (such as the one we are having here in the forum) would hopefully eclipse the "not-so-good" happenings elsewhere!

In due time, we'll have to address those as well...

Erick, I'm proud that a fellow Pinoy is taking the time and effort to earn a Doctorate! Way to go!
If it's not too much to ask, if you may share your readings and thoughts through articles here in Siam Pinoy, it would really be a big help to everyone. The more varied our ideas are, the more learning will take place.

Thanks so much for your posts, guys!

I would love to! I'll send my thesis' Abstract and a portion of Introduction on the INDIGENIZATION OF ENGLISH to Jose! And share some of the ideas of my students' thesis.

I go home every summer and do my Ph.D....one of the benefits you can get in teaching at public schools!

[Madam H]

Thanks for your advice Madamme H and erick. I am so  overwhelmed knowing that I am talking to experienced and eager-to-share professionals. With your years of experience, I know can get something more from you. I am planning to take-up TESOL course this coming semester. Do you have any advice before I will spend some amount for the course? I know I can get something from you Sir and Ma'am.

For now I am trying my best to be a good if not the best language teacher. Thanks again!!! I hope you could post something under ESL/EFL Teaching ideas.

Josephil,

The ideas I'm going to share with you here are not actually answers. My intention and purpose is to help you think through your options. I hope this will help...

If the TESOL course is NOT one where you have to spend you life's savings on, then I would say go for it. Earlier, when I myself was struggling with the fact that I didn't have any ESL teaching background, I took two courses at ECC in Siam Square. One was on teaching Young Learners and the other was an introductory course to Teaching English (they only took a week each, round 5 hours of actual class time each day, and I paid 5,000 baht for the first one and maybe 7,000 for the other one).

There are so many other factors you might want to consider, such as, are the presenters/teachers competent and well experienced enough to give you practical ideas on the teaching situation in Thailand (if that's what you want to focus on)? Are you aiming for something theoretical or practical? Sometimes, course outlines look pretty good on paper, but they don't deliver the promise. You might want to contact somebody who has taken the course to get their feedback.

Since you already have a degree on teaching Math, you might want to look into getting a Master's on English Language Teaching. Question to ask is, do you want something more "international" or do you want something specific to the Thai setting? Perhaps Erick can give you some info on the courses he is taking.

Ideally, it would be great to do something that's NOT online, where you actually get to interact with the teachers and your classmates. The courses I took here in Thailand had a great balance between theory and practice, and I had the privilege to interact with fellow teachers from Vietnam, China, Japan, Thailand, etc. But that meant I had to be in school 3 (sometimes 4) evenings a week, and weekends were mostly spent discussing projects and presentations with group mates. It was a very demanding one, but it was all worth it, for it did not only increase my knowledge about how to teach, but also had specific skills building parts (particularly on oral presentation and writing skills).

Sometimes TESOL courses are not recognized in international schools in Thailand and elsewhere in Asia . My mentor, who happens to be an adviser to the Ministry of Education here in Thailand, advised against taking TESOL/TEFLA courses that last only for say, a month, if you want to pursue a career later on in an international school, or want to work outside Thailand, or want to go back home and work there.

Bottom line, ask yourself what your goal is in taking a course? And how will it affect your future career path?

I have two friends, one took an online course while she's based here in Thailand, simply because she does not have the time to be a full time student in the evenings or at the weekends. The other friend took a course and she went to school here at weekends. Both were happy with the results. I'll do my best to get them to join the forum, but they are busy at the moment with other things, and so could not always go online.

'Hope that helps for starters...

[Madam H]

To all our fellow Pinoy teachers out there, we would like to encourage you to post whatever questions you may have, or whatever concerns you as you work and live here in Thailand. If we remain passive and choose not to put things out in the open here in this forum, it will be hard to find the answers.

So come on, follow the advise most of you give your own ESL students: SPEAK MORE, INTERACT MORE!

[yllorco]

I know this has been talked about sa kung saan saan pati na rin sa Khao San. But really, I wanna hear from you ang mga sentiments mo about this. The past 9-10 years we have been friends with lot's of foreign teachers here in Thailand. I say, some are really good ones (may authentic scientist pa nga). Some naman ay talagang kaibigang panginuman lang, if you know what I mean.

Are you happy about this or not? No right or wrong answers here. Lahat ay mapupulutan ng aral.

Let me say that I'm not happy about this since this is a discriminatory post by some employers.  However, there is something that we can do to neutralize the notion that ESL job is for "Native English Speakers only".  First let us be reminded that about two-thirds of the ESL teachers around the world are non-native English speakers (NNES).  The contribution of NNES cannot be underestimated that they are learner models, because they have undergone the process of learning English as a second language. While the monolingual native English speakers (NES) may be the best language models, qualified multilingual NNES teachers are much better in being a learner model; Along with the speaker models (i.e. NES), students need the learner models as well, because they are more sensitive with the learning process of the ESL students.  Therefore, the notion that ESL teaching is for "Native English Speakers only" is a fallacy, and informed and balanced ESL teachers don't argue with this.  [See Rosie Maum, “Nonnative-English-Speaking Teachers in the English Teaching Profession” (2002) or visit http://www.cal.org/resources/digest/digest_pdfs/0209maum.pdf.  There is also an organization for NNEST, http://www.moussu.net/nnest/blog/].  Second, "Native English Speakers only" may seem to have business connotation.  We have observed that ESL teaching in Thailand is no longer the sole domain of education, but of business as well.  It is a fact that ESL teaching in Thailand is no longer an "ESL education" perse, but "ESL industry."  The above subject of study is for the purpose of gaining more profit by attracting more students with the "falang" teachers.  But it is also a fact that NES teachers strive for teaching recognition and NNES teachers strive for proficiency recognition.  So there is something that Filipinos can do--show our high proficiency while maintaining our highly qualified teaching profile.  Let's prove ourselves to the employers that we can be native-like English speakers as shown in our very high TOEIC/TOEFL/IELTS test scores and in our accent and fluency.  That having said, we can make some difference in our respective schools (e.g., most of the teachers at Assumption College Thonburi are Filipinos).  Third, experience has taught us that most of those who discriminate against NNES teachers are not highly qualified NES teachers.  They do it to cover up their insecurities.  We are not as insecure as they are.  So, let's turn the wheel on our side, and stop being manipulated by this people.  Fourth, the saying "Keep your friend close and your enemies closer" is a very valuable technique in this kind of disciminatory practice.

[erick]

Thanks for your advice Madamme H and erick. I am so  overwhelmed knowing that I am talking to experienced and eager-to-share professionals. With your years of experience, I know can get something more from you. I am planning to take-up TESOL course this coming semester. Do you have any advice before I will spend some amount for the course? I know I can get something from you Sir and Ma'am.

For now I am trying my best to be a good if not the best language teacher. Thanks again!!! I hope you could post something under ESL/EFL Teaching ideas.

an effective language teacher:

talks less: encourages more student talk

makes sure that every student ACCOMPLISHES the language task: to develop students' sense of accomplishment and confidence

is not a textbook slave: looks for authentic materials and thinks of creative ways in using them as springboard in teaching target language functions

not boring: designs a variety of language tasks/activities using different appropriate strategies and techniques

( josephil...you can add more to the list if you want)

[iSDa(GO PORTAL)]

To be an effective language teacher is to be alarmed,

when the students do not ask you questions no more!

because... 

for them to be surprised, to wonder, is to begin to understand! 

coz you can speak anything all that you undertand!!! 

Mabuhay Pilipino!!!  Amazin Thailand!

[erick]

 Third, experience has taught us that most of those who discriminate against NNES teachers are not highly qualified NES teachers.  They do it to cover up their insecurities.  We are not as insecure as they are.  So, let's turn the wheel on our side, and stop being manipulated by this people.  Fourth, the saying "Keep your friend close and your enemies closer" is a very valuable technique in this kind of disciminatory practice.

I totally agree. No native speakers with good TESL/TEFL backgound and/or discerned understanding on the real nature of ELT/TESL/TEFL "discriminate" Asian language teachers; and vice-versa.

The real problem is the ATTITUDE of some school heads and administrators towards Asians as English language teachers. They aren't CONVINCE that Asian language teachers including Thai teachers are just as good as the native speakers...In the sense that with proper training and proper implementation of language-education policies, Thai teachers could be as strong as Filipinos and native speakers.

[yllorco]

Quote from: Josephil on July 23, 2007, 12:15:53 PM
Thanks for your advice Madamme H and erick. I am so  overwhelmed knowing that I am talking to experienced and eager-to-share professionals. With your years of experience, I know can get something more from you. I am planning to take-up TESOL course this coming semester. Do you have any advice before I will spend some amount for the course? I know I can get something from you Sir and Ma'am.

For now I am trying my best to be a good if not the best  language teacher. Thanks again!!! I hope you could post something under ESL/EFL Teaching ideas.
_____________________________________________________

Hi Josephil,

I can speak for my own experience regarding TESOL/TEFL.  I hope this could be of much help to those who are new and are afraid to look for a job in English as a second language teaching (ESLT). 

Both my undergraduate and graduate majors are in the areas of theology.  There is nothing related to ESLT.  However, Koreans kept on asking me to teach them ESL conversation for 6 years, because they thought that I was born in the USA (so some Americans and British did too for more than 10 times already).  I got a job in China through a telephone interview with a group of Chinese English teachers.  Both Koreans and Chinese students often asked me how I prepared myself for the job.  My answer was simple: I memorized virtually all the phonetics in the Merriam Webster's Dictionary, and tried to practice orally for at least 2 hours a day.

The reason I came to Thailand from China was for the purpose of enhancing myself in ESLT.  My face-to-face TESOL/TEFL certificate did help me get a good job in Thailand, especially that my first employer was a government school whose department head was into quality ESL teaching.  During the interview, interviewers would normally ask for a TESOL/TEFL certificate if you are a newbie without any teaching experience.  However my previous employer gave me a chance for an interview because she said I sound like a native speaker on the phone, and counted my 7-year experience of ELT than a TESOL/TEFL certificate.  A private school offered me a leadership role when I started a graduate ELT degree.  Another language school hired me for my proficiency and experience.  The latest school now has just employed me on the basis of qualification, proficiency and experience. 

To summarize, my 7 years of ESLT experience with Koreans and Chinese could be credited much for my English proficiency.  In Thailand, I have worked for 4 schools (3 private and 1 government schools) in about 14 months on the basis of proficiency (especially accent and fluency), experience, education (undergraduate and graduate), and TESOL/TEFL certificate.  If you want a higher position than an ESL teacher, get certified in the graduate level.

[yllorco]

 Third, experience has taught us that most of those who discriminate against NNES teachers are not highly qualified NES teachers.  They do it to cover up their insecurities.  We are not as insecure as they are.  So, let's turn the wheel on our side, and stop being manipulated by this people.  Fourth, the saying "Keep your friend close and your enemies closer" is a very valuable technique in this kind of disciminatory practice.

I totally agree. No native speakers with good TESL/TEFL backgound and/or discerned understanding on the real nature of ELT/TESL/TEFL "discriminate" Asian language teachers; and vice-versa.

The real problem is the ATTITUDE of some school heads and administrators towards Asians as English language teachers. They aren't CONVINCE that Asian language teachers including Thai teachers are just as good as the native speakers...In the sense that with proper training and proper implementation of language-education policies, Thai teachers could be as strong as Filipinos and native speakers.

It's true.  I have met some Thai teachers in some international schools whose English proficiency is of the natives.  You just close eyes and listen to them, and you might mistake them for a native speaker.  Some of them are indeed native English speakers, because they have mastered English before the age of purberty. [See my article below]

[yllorco]

Below is my article which I submitted to my American professor last year.

                                           Are Filipinos Native Speakers?

   The issue whether Filipinos are native speakers of English or not is a complicated task to discuss, because it is rich in ambiguity.  The complication arises mainly out of issues with definitions of terms (such as “native speaker,” “mother tongue/language,” “native language,” “first language,”etc.) (Terralingua 2007).  There are also issues relating to criteria of defining the language status of the Filipinos in general, use of English in the Philippines, proficiency of speakers, and ethnicity or country of origin.  Depending on linguistic perspective and biases, most Filipinos can be considered either non-native speakers or native speakers of English. 
Those who judge that Filipinos are non-native speakers assert that Filipinos don’t measure up to the definition of a native speaker as “a person who has learned a language from an early age and who has full mastery of that language” (Google 2007), because Filipino speakers of English are not comparable to Americans or the British in terms of accent, fluency, vocabulary, and grammar.  English is not most Filipinos’ first language, mother language, or vernacular that a person learns basically first from his/her family (Philippine English 2007).  While a native speaker may be a bilingual or multilingual without formal education, such as “cultural immersion before puberty” (First Language 2007), most Filipinos learn English formally at school.  These proponents point out the fact that Pilipino (Tagalog) is the Philippines’ national language, and generalize that it is most Filipinos’ first language (Roeland 2006), which it is not, and English—though one of the official languages, the other being Pilipino—is just used as a second language (Philippine English 2007).  The reported figure (42,500,000) for second language speakers (L2) is only 63.71% of the total population (66.7 million) (NSO March 18, 2005). Filipino speakers of English as a second language (92.59% of 45,900,000, the total speakers of English) far outnumber those who speak English as their first language (7.41% of 45,900,000, the total speakers of English) (Philippine English 2007).  According to this perspective, therefore, Filipinos are rated as non-native speakers of English.
   The same definition above can be used to consider that most Filipinos could be bilingual or multilingual native speakers, who have learned English, either as first or second language, from an early age either at home, in the community or at school before puberty.  The 2000 Census of Population and Housing by NSO indicated that “six out of ten persons aged 5 years and over can speak English” (NSO 2005), which further indicates that the Filipinos are the 4th largest English speaking-population (45.9 million) in the world after India, the USA and the UK (List of countries 2007).  Filipinos could qualify for the criterion that, as Davies (2003) asserted, distinguishes non-native from native speakers: "A child may be a native speaker of more than one language as long as the acquisition process starts early and necessarily prepuberty.”  Filipinos further qualify for other more criteria outlined by Davies: intuitions about idiolectal grammar, intuitions about the standard language grammar, discourse and pragmatic control, creative performance and interpreting and translating into L1.  Accents, fluency, vocabulary and grammar are no longer regarded as non-native-like, since they are just a variety of English as an international language—just like there are varieties among British, American, and other Englishes around the world; these competencies are left to the individual speaker, as there are different levels of speakers among Americans and British people.  Being a native speaker doesn’t have to be identified anymore with the first language, since a multilingual native speaker can use several languages proficiently with ease as his first language, due to early childhood exposure and training.  In this sense, Filipinos can be native speakers of English, too.  And many are.  But the new generation—the below 25 years old group don’t do nearly as well as the older ones, who used it more.  Changes in schooling have hurt the English ability of the younger ones.   In Thailand too—just the hours in school may not be enough to produce proficiency—they need to practice outside of class.

                                                     References

Davis, A. (2003). The native speaker in applied linguistics. Message posted to http://www.arts.ed.ac.uk/celtic/poileasaidh/daviesseminar.html

First language. (2007). In Wikipedia, The Free Encyclopedia. Retrieved January 9, 2007, from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native_speaker

Google. (2007). Definitions of native speaker on the web. Retrieved January 9, 2007, from www.ub.es/div5/departam/dll/recursos/prov71.htm

List of countries by English-speaking population. (2007). In Wikipedia, The Free Encyclopedia. Retrieved January 9, 2007, from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_English-speaking_population

NSO. (2005). Educational characteristics of the Filipinos. Retrieved January 9, 2007, from http://www.census.gov.ph/data/sectordata/sr05153tx.html

Philippine English. (2007). In Wikipedia, The Free Encyclopedia. Retrieved January 9, 2007, from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philippine_English

Roeland, P. (2006). The Filipino issue. Message posted to http://www.ajarn.com/Contris/philiproelandjune2006.htm

Terralingua (2007). Mother tongue. Retrieved from, on, etc.   http://www.terralingua.org/Definitions/DMotherTongue.html

[TARSIER]

This topic is getting more and more interesting for qualified and experienced Filipinos are intellectually talking about the issue. I hope that SIAMPINOY will continually grow because of the intellectual Filipinos who are always finding ways to alleviate the racial discrimination in Thailand. You can be excellent speakers for our workshop! I hope that the planned workshop will be realized soon.

I hope it would be on weekend so that everybody can attend.

[iSDa(GO PORTAL)]

yeah baby yeah!!!

the replies have become more detailed...

intricate labyrinth of refined phraseology...delicate...complex...mind boggling (for me)...boring (i was bored in school  )

a lot of evidence at hand to support arguments...

facts and numbers and indexes and references...

who would dare to contradict such statements if you're not ready to show your own wares of proven and systematic thoughts or what have you...

oppss sorry...carry on...please...am all ears...eyes

[Madam H]

yeah baby yeah!!!

the replies have become more detailed...

intricate labyrinth of refined phraseology...delicate...complex...mind boggling (for me)...boring (i was bored in school  )

a lot of evidence at hand to support arguments...

facts and numbers and indexes and references...

who would dare to contradict such statements if you're not ready to show your own wares of proven and systematic thoughts or what have you...

oppss sorry...carry on...please...am all ears...eyes

lol Thanks for breaking the ice, Mel! We are getting very serious here... and don't you worry, I think everyone will agree with me when I say that we will, indeed, continue!!!

[Madam H]

Yllorco,

Glad you could join us here in the forum! And thanks so much for your ideas and best of all, for the article.
'Have not read your article yet, but will give you my two cents once I'm able to sit down and reflect on it.

'Can't remember this exactly, but I think it was you who mentioned something about native speakers being good models of English, but since the non-native speakers went through the whole process of learning the language themselves, they are more equipped to teach it...

Truly said...

I just remember one time, a colleague of mine (native speaker) was telling a small group of us about a conversation she had with her students, where she was correcting them about a mistake they made in English. And hear this, her explanation to her students as to why something is wrong was this: "Well, it doesn't sound right. Listen when you say it, it just doesn't sound right!"

This teacher, most times, knows her stuff when it comes to teaching English, and she cares enough about her students to really try to make things "understandable" to them. However,in this instance, it dawned on me that because she has not gone through the whole process of learning English as a second language, she didn't realize her students do not have an idea as to what "sounds right" because they may be hearing it for the first time in their lives!

Totally agree, non-native speakers (who themselves are proficient and well experienced) are in a better position to teach second language learners on the count that they can teach students what strategies they themselves employed in their own learning.

And let us not ignore the affective side here, which, I think has an even bigger impact on how successful a learner is. For it is only when students are having fun, are secure in the environment they are in, and feel accepted even when they make mistakes that learning actually takes place. In this respect, a teacher who is sensitive to the concerns, the needs and the difficulties of an ESL learner would most likely be a more effective teacher than one who has never gone through the same struggles.

[erick]

Yllorco is right.  When you sound like an American or British, Thai schools, with no doubt, hire you!  Thai schools are so sensitive to pronunciation and accent that they PREFER an Asian teacher who speaks NATURALLY like, well, the native speakers.  With strict caution though, ESL IS NOT ALL about accent and pronunciation.  Pronunciation is dynamic and accent is arbitrary.  An ESL teacher, though, should constantly be reminded of enunciating vowel and consonant sounds properly.

IMHO, having a very strong Filipino accent while speaking English in the Philippines is a norm; however, being sensitive to the “needs” of Thai schools and for the purpose of  not giving them the impression of teaching them FILIPINO ENGLISH, it is still best for a Filipino teacher working in other countries to hasten their enunciation of some sounds that are non-existent to the Filipino language.  For instance the aspiration of the beginning and final sound /th/; the variants of the vowel sound /a/; the suffix “-ion” preceding the /t/, /s/ sounds to name a few.

Is it wise to practice the English phonetics?  The answer is obvious.  Many school heads and Thai teachers request for Filipino teachers to teach English and other content subjects in their schools but they WISH to hire Filipino teachers with “impressive” (native-like) accent.   It doesn’t sound right but this is the REAL ISSUE that’s been haunting the entire Filipino teachers in Thailand.

I have brought this out not to justify the need to follow the native speakers’ accent but to inspire other Filipino teachers out there to use this piece of information as a STRATEGY in getting jobs and in mastering NOT THE NATIVE SPEAKERS’ ACCENT but the proper enunciation of English vowel and consonant sounds.

One may argue that in the real world NO SINGLE STANDARD ACCENT is viewed as mandatory when using the English language all over the world.  And this is perfectly true. Then again we are teachers of English as a second language and we are obliged to master the accurate way of enunciating sounds and learn how some words are pronounced differently by the so-called native speakers.

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Below is my article which I submitted to my American professor last year.

                                           Are Filipinos Native Speakers?

   The issue whether Filipinos are native speakers of English or not is a complicated task to discuss, because it is rich in ambiguity.  The complication arises mainly out of issues with definitions of terms (such as “native speaker,” “mother tongue/language,” “native language,” “first language,”etc.) (Terralingua 2007).  There are also issues relating to criteria of defining the language status of the Filipinos in general, use of English in the Philippines, proficiency of speakers, and ethnicity or country of origin.  Depending on linguistic perspective and biases, most Filipinos can be considered either non-native speakers or native speakers of English. 
Those who judge that Filipinos are non-native speakers assert that Filipinos don’t measure up to the definition of a native speaker as “a person who has learned a language from an early age and who has full mastery of that language” (Google 2007), because Filipino speakers of English are not comparable to Americans or the British in terms of accent, fluency, vocabulary, and grammar.  English is not most Filipinos’ first language, mother language, or vernacular that a person learns basically first from his/her family (Philippine English 2007).  While a native speaker may be a bilingual or multilingual without formal education, such as “cultural immersion before puberty” (First Language 2007), most Filipinos learn English formally at school.  These proponents point out the fact that Pilipino (Tagalog) is the Philippines’ national language, and generalize that it is most Filipinos’ first language (Roeland 2006), which it is not, and English—though one of the official languages, the other being Pilipino—is just used as a second language (Philippine English 2007).  The reported figure (42,500,000) for second language speakers (L2) is only 63.71% of the total population (66.7 million) (NSO March 18, 2005). Filipino speakers of English as a second language (92.59% of 45,900,000, the total speakers of English) far outnumber those who speak English as their first language (7.41% of 45,900,000, the total speakers of English) (Philippine English 2007).  According to this perspective, therefore, Filipinos are rated as non-native speakers of English.
   The same definition above can be used to consider that most Filipinos could be bilingual or multilingual native speakers, who have learned English, either as first or second language, from an early age either at home, in the community or at school before puberty.  The 2000 Census of Population and Housing by NSO indicated that “six out of ten persons aged 5 years and over can speak English” (NSO 2005), which further indicates that the Filipinos are the 4th largest English speaking-population (45.9 million) in the world after India, the USA and the UK (List of countries 2007).  Filipinos could qualify for the criterion that, as Davies (2003) asserted, distinguishes non-native from native speakers: "A child may be a native speaker of more than one language as long as the acquisition process starts early and necessarily prepuberty.”  Filipinos further qualify for other more criteria outlined by Davies: intuitions about idiolectal grammar, intuitions about the standard language grammar, discourse and pragmatic control, creative performance and interpreting and translating into L1.  Accents, fluency, vocabulary and grammar are no longer regarded as non-native-like, since they are just a variety of English as an international language—just like there are varieties among British, American, and other Englishes around the world; these competencies are left to the individual speaker, as there are different levels of speakers among Americans and British people.  Being a native speaker doesn’t have to be identified anymore with the first language, since a multilingual native speaker can use several languages proficiently with ease as his first language, due to early childhood exposure and training.  In this sense, Filipinos can be native speakers of English, too.  And many are.  But the new generation—the below 25 years old group don’t do nearly as well as the older ones, who used it more.  Changes in schooling have hurt the English ability of the younger ones.   In Thailand too—just the hours in school may not be enough to produce proficiency—they need to practice outside of class.

                                                     References

Davis, A. (2003). The native speaker in applied linguistics. Message posted to http://www.arts.ed.ac.uk/celtic/poileasaidh/daviesseminar.html

First language. (2007). In Wikipedia, The Free Encyclopedia. Retrieved January 9, 2007, from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native_speaker

Google. (2007). Definitions of native speaker on the web. Retrieved January 9, 2007, from www.ub.es/div5/departam/dll/recursos/prov71.htm

List of countries by English-speaking population. (2007). In Wikipedia, The Free Encyclopedia. Retrieved January 9, 2007, from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_English-speaking_population

NSO. (2005). Educational characteristics of the Filipinos. Retrieved January 9, 2007, from http://www.census.gov.ph/data/sectordata/sr05153tx.html

Philippine English. (2007). In Wikipedia, The Free Encyclopedia. Retrieved January 9, 2007, from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philippine_English

Roeland, P. (2006). The Filipino issue. Message posted to http://www.ajarn.com/Contris/philiproelandjune2006.htm

Terralingua (2007). Mother tongue. Retrieved from, on, etc.   http://www.terralingua.org/Definitions/DMotherTongue.html

Yllorco, I find your article enlightening but forgive me for being blunt but didn't you submit this article last year? I'm just wondering there might be some "confusion" on the dates of your references.

Anyway, I'll be contributing an article on the "Indigenization of English in Thailand" which will explain the contention that Thai people have their own way of using the English language which makes the undying issue of  "native speakers vs. non-native speakers" IRRELEVANT and ABSURD. In a way that this article will boost our confidence in TESL or TEFL.

Furthermore, I'll be submitting a master's thesis that would clearly show how FILIPINO WRITERS; particularly, short story writers made English their own. From this textual analysis based on linguistic research, it will enlighten us that FILIPINOS do not use  NATIVE ENGLISH; therefore, it is partly safe to conclude that FILIPINOS are not NATIVE SPEAKERS either. ( This is NOT supposed to be an issue because language educators and linguists in the Philippines admit that we are NOT native speakers of English ( with the exception of a few). But this does not make us INFERIOR because the English language has not just become a medium of communication but a CULTURE of its own blended with the traditions and lifestyles of DIFFERENT countries all over the world).

Hoestly speaking, I think it is more fruitful to focus on HOW WE CREATIVELY USE THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE rather than proving that FILIPINOS ARE INDEED NATIVE SPEAKERS.