Suspended Morality

[Ms Demi Noor]

ha ha... this happened to me on a Thai Inter flight between Manila and Bangkok. The crew just picked up videos for inflight entertainment.  Medyo risqué and I thought was very inappropriate because like in your case, there were children on board. So I called the attention of the purser who later apologised for the event.

@ Ms Demi - sad to say, yes. But being sick does not mean it can't be healed. When I was in Bangkok a year ago in 1 big shopping mall, they had a big screen that shows ads and music videos. At lunch time, the video changed to a xxx film with real up-close shots!!! I watched it (of course ) but then I looked at all areas and there were kids, families together but no bothered to leave or call someone. Everyone watched! Until I could not take it anymore (the anger of course ) and left the bullding. 

[SilverSurfer]

Well done po Ms Demi. The world needs someone like you to stand up for what is right. 

ha ha... this happened to me on a Thai Inter flight between Manila and Bangkok. The crew just picked up videos for inflight entertainment.  Medyo risqué and I thought was very inappropriate because like in your case, there were children on board. So I called the attention of the purser who later apologised for the event.

@ Ms Demi - sad to say, yes. But being sick does not mean it can't be healed. When I was in Bangkok a year ago in 1 big shopping mall, they had a big screen that shows ads and music videos. At lunch time, the video changed to a xxx film with real up-close shots!!! I watched it (of course ) but then I looked at all areas and there were kids, families together but no bothered to leave or call someone. Everyone watched! Until I could not take it anymore (the anger of course ) and left the bullding. 

[Ongbak]

sang mall yan SS??

[ms.a]

siguro yong iba na illegal recruiter, holdupper and swindler for sure ganon na sila dati sa ating bansa, so when dumating sila sa thailand they didn't suspend but just continued to ply their illegal trade, maybe it's what they do best.

i guess iba yong standards nila.

nag  go-inter lang sila 

[Ikaro]

Ibabase mo yan sa concept mo of RIGHT and WRONG. It is wrong to commit adultery. It is wrong to murder, steal, and deceive people.  Kahit saang sulok ka ng mundo - hindi nagbabago ang basic rules na ito.

Kung ibabase ko sa concept ko of right and wrong, then that makes morality relative.

So probably morality isn't suspended in some lawfully right but morally questionable acts but we differ in our sense of morality. According to silversurfer we can base it on moral standards (as accepted in the majority of the society/community).



In the Phil, what are the things that they do to people who commit adultery? having an illegitimate child? etc.

Anu naman po pwede nating gawing sa mga Pinoy na nasa Thailand na gumagawa sa mga binanggit ni MDN sa una niyang post? That is not to "suspend our morality".

[:::OrnjirA:::]

3 of my Pinoy colleagues are now madly in love with their Thai gfs. but, they have wives and kids, left back home in Pinas. they've all asked for annulment, in order for them to remarry, but the wifeys all said "no way! jose!"

..and to make things even more complicated, the GFs have demanded marriage..asap. otherwise, "ploy mun".


i can see all of em goin through one helluvan emotional firestorm.



buti na lang binata ako nung dumating sa LOS.


we all agreed. mas sweet, romantic, serene, maasikaso, submisssive, at non-confrontational kasi ang mga thai... at di hamak na mas magaganda at sexy.

[Ongbak]

The dilemma, of having to do right by doing what we cannot know is right, cannot be escaped because, the attractions of pseudo-innocence notwithstanding, we simply cannot avoid imposing some values on others, and/or avoid responsibility for imposing our values on society, just because we have no moral authority to do so. To live is to impose one value on society, to not live is to impose another. To join in imposes our presence, to opt out imposes our absence. To vote or not vote, to speak or not speak, to mind our own business or interfere, are all values-imposing. Our choice is not to impose no values but only, and always, to choose which values we will impose, how and why.

Being responsible about the values we input into the world is, however, a behaviour which humans are generally scrupulous to avoid. We normally translate any responsibility that we have for others as according us the privilege of parent-like power over them. We protest that no one has a right to impose her or his values on us while, of necessity and in fact, vigorously imposing our values on others with a viciousness made worse [more violent] by:

-our refusal to recognise and take responsibility for what we are doing - we deceive ourselves that it is not us who impose moral violence on others, we are just the agents of deities or forces of one kind or another, society/women/the workers, convention/tradition, fate, karma or 'historical necessity', justice and so on and on and on.

And

-our confusion of moral values with political [preference] values - we impose our preferences on others under (a) a compulsive need to confirm that we matter and (b) the assumption that our tastes and preferences are morally good because, if they are not, then there are doubts about our value as persons.

[buddhist punk]

Thanks for starting this thread, Ms Demi Noor.

Morality may be subjective (for a group or society) but I disagree that discussions should stop right there (as suggested by someone who replied). Because discussing "mores" inevitably leads to discussing "ethics" and etiquette, which I think is more useful.

We might agree that there are few "universal" codes of conduct that we must live by to survive as a species: murder, dishonesty (taking advantage of others though position, power, or both), and crimes like stealing, assault, rape, etc. I'm sure I've missed some other points but these are the major ones. Everything else is subjective and arbitrary, especially when religion comes into play. I'll touch on this later.

The issues you've mentioned in your initials posts all fail to live up to that universal code and rightly deserves condemnation. So now the question is, why are stealing and taking advantage of others prevalent among Filipinos? PhiStar Editor Teddy Benigno once wrote a long time ago that our (Philippine) society is "damaged". We have a damanged culture and a damaged group psyche. It has little to do with our Spanish masters or our American influence because our society began slipping into hell soon after we gained independence from both.

As for bigamy and and having one or more women "on the side" while one is married, maybe we should all just acknowledge that some men are more polygamous by nature than others? I'm no big fan of Islam but maybe the Muslims have it right: you may take more than one wife as long as you can afford it. I'm sure many women here will cringe at the thought. But there must be a better way than the one we are pursuing right now.

As for the inappriate videos that find its way into a very public mall and on early afternoon cable TV (as I have once experienced), I guess some people don't see sexuality the way we Catholic-Filipinos see it. "Sexy" shows are for private veiwing and not for kids. But perhaps what this society is teaching their kids is to not be squeamish about it. I'm just guessing here, but realizethat Buddhism is different many ways to Catholicism or ther Judeo-Christian faiths.

[Ms Demi Noor]

Ang concept of right or wrong ay hindi lang based sa IYONG SARILING understanding dito. Dapat din i-balance ito sa kung ano ang tinging ng ibang tao sa isang act.  Sang ayon ako sa sinabi ni SS na it should be what the general public thinks as acceptable or not.

Kung ibabase ko sa concept ko of right and wrong, then that makes morality relative.

So probably morality isn't suspended in some lawfully right but morally questionable acts but we differ in our sense of morality. According to silversurfer we can base it on moral standards (as accepted in the majority of the society/community).



In the Phil, what are the things that they do to people who commit adultery? having an illegitimate child? etc.

Anu naman po pwede nating gawing sa mga Pinoy na nasa Thailand na gumagawa sa mga binanggit ni MDN sa una niyang post? That is not to "suspend our morality".

[joe D dried mango]

Sang ayon ako sa iyo Shiva, mga ibang Pinoy d2 npakahilig manloko ng kapwa, ke kaibigan pa nya o hindi, lalo na yung kakilala kong tiga mooban Sikarin, halos lahat na yata ng kasama sa trabaho ay niloloko...tsk tsk tsk. pero sabi nga nila diskarte nila yun! 

[/quote]




kilala ko ata sya megatron.....kaya ang payo ko wag ka mag pa ka bayani....

[Ms Demi Noor]

Part 1:

Hi BP! Long time no hear!!

Morality changes between different societies or religions.  For some Muslims, it might be alright to have more than one wife (actually, a Muslim friend of mine said that it is not automatic that all Muslims could take on other wives).  There are conditions which may allow a Muslim man to take on another wife - e.g. if the first wife is barren.  For some other religious sects, polygamy may be allowed. Among Catholics, this is forbidden.

My original examples might not have satified your definition of examples of Universal Code of Conduct - but I had to start somewhere - heh heh. Besides, these were examples that I have observed and it really disturbs me seeing this happen. It has come to a point where I am embarrassed to be associated with these people. But you know, I too have not said anything to them. Perhaps that is because I am not close to them. 

So does that make it alright for them to do things that would be considered morally wrong in the Philippines?  I don't think so.  If you were a devout Indonesian Muslim, you would still not drink, womanize, or eat pork if you came to the Philippines. Of course some of them might be tempted.

Thanks for starting this thread, Ms Demi Noor.

Morality may be subjective (for a group or society) but I disagree that discussions should stop right there (as suggested by someone who replied). Because discussing "mores" inevitably leads to discussing "ethics" and etiquette, which I think is more useful.

We might agree that there are few "universal" codes of conduct that we must live by to survive as a species: murder, dishonesty (taking advantage of others though position, power, or both), and crimes like stealing, assault, rape, etc. I'm sure I've missed some other points but these are the major ones. Everything else is subjective and arbitrary, especially when religion comes into play. I'll touch on this later.

The issues you've mentioned in your initials posts all fail to live up to that universal code and rightly deserves condemnation. So now the question is, why are stealing and taking advantage of others prevalent among Filipinos? PhiStar Editor Teddy Benigno once wrote a long time ago that our (Philippine) society is "damaged". We have a damanged culture and a damaged group psyche. It has little to do with our Spanish masters or our American influence because our society began slipping into hell soon after we gained independence from both.

As for bigamy and and having one or more women "on the side" while one is married, maybe we should all just acknowledge that some men are more polygamous by nature than others? I'm no big fan of Islam but maybe the Muslims have it right: you may take more than one wife as long as you can afford it. I'm sure many women here will cringe at the thought. But there must be a better way than the one we are pursuing right now.

As for the inappriate videos that find its way into a very public mall and on early afternoon cable TV (as I have once experienced), I guess some people don't see sexuality the way we Catholic-Filipinos see it. "Sexy" shows are for private veiwing and not for kids. But perhaps what this society is teaching their kids is to not be squeamish about it. I'm just guessing here, but realizethat Buddhism is different many ways to Catholicism or ther Judeo-Christian faiths.

[Ms Demi Noor]

Part 2:

I think the biggest problem here is Temptation - especially when people think that nobody is looking or there is nobody important enough to give a da___m about their transgressions.  Oh I have sinned and I have bent the rules as a Catholic - but in general I have lived a moral and decent life. I try to teach my children to have good values - although it is rather difficult.

The Abrahamic religions have a different point of view towards sexuality. This is one reason why we feel so disturbed by the different sexuality of Japanese people. To us for example, what we may think as sexy are large knockers or long smooth legs. To the Japanese, the naked nape is considered as appealing. 

Nakedness to the Japanese is not unusual e.g. at a public bath. But for us, we have been taught to cover up for modesty. We were trained from very early on that this was taboo.

Sex and sexuality is a very big topic. Care to open a new thread?

Of course people change and public opinion changes.  When I was growing up, going to church meant that women had to put on veils. Nobody dared wear a bright red dress.  Women did not wear long trousers. But that has changed.  While these have changed, other practices remain taboo. Adultery (bigamy, polygamy), fraud, murder, theft, etc. still remain no no’s.

Thanks for starting this thread, Ms Demi Noor.

[marie]

bakit hindi ninyo isulat sa tagalog para tayo tayo lang mga pinoy nakakaintindi? nakakaincriminate yung mga pinagsasabi nyo porket magaling kayo mag english?

[Ongbak]

bakit hindi ninyo isulat sa tagalog para tayo tayo lang mga pinoy nakakaintindi? nakakaincriminate yung mga pinagsasabi nyo porket magaling kayo mag english?

OT ON

sorry deliamaga...we have also other nationalities here sa SP so some can understand only in english..pero we are free to express it in english o di kaya sa tagalog(Filipino)..ang importante we express o binabahagi natin ang ating saluobin... di sa nagmamayabang tayo na magaling mag english kundi dahil mas feel nya maganda express ang kanyang nasaisip..don't feel "incriminated"..we are all equal here at SP...  ;)ok? 

OT OFF

[marie]

bakit hindi ninyo isulat sa tagalog para tayo tayo lang mga pinoy nakakaintindi? nakakaincriminate yung mga pinagsasabi nyo porket magaling kayo mag english?

OT ON

sorry deliamaga...we have also other nationalities here sa SP so some can understand only in english..pero we are free to express it in english o di kaya sa tagalog(Filipino)..ang importante we express o binabahagi natin ang ating saluobin... di sa nagmamayabang tayo na magaling mag english kundi dahil mas feel nya maganda express ang kanyang nasaisip..don't feel "incriminated"..we are all equal here at SP...  ;)ok? 

OT OFF

hindi mo naintindihan yun sinabi ko. ang punto ko ay dapat siguro magtagalog kaysa yun nageenglish at sinabi pa ay ang mga pilipino sa ibang bansa ay walang moralidad. ano ang ibig sabihin nyan sa ibang lahi. kung eenglishin mo ay parang sinasabi mo na parang okay lang na mabasa nila.

kung sasabihin ng mga ibang lahi na ang mga pilipino ay magnanakaw dahil nga maraming naman magnanakaw katulad dito sa pratunam. o kaya sabihin ng isa na okay lang magka gf ng thai pero may asawa ka sa pinas. ano ibig sabihin yan kung mabasa ng ibang lahi? o mabasa ng boss mo na farang?

ang sa akin lang ay kung pwede magtagalog na lang. bakit mo kailangan sirain pa ang sirang imahe ng pilipinas? wala ba kayong ugaling nationalismo?

[Ms Demi Noor]

Unang-una, hindi po ako Tagalog. Nahihirapan akong managalog - kaya't sa Ingles ang iba kong post. Susubukan kong tagalogin ang aking post - hindi pagkat nais kong maging-mas Nationalistic kung di kasi ninanais mo yun. 

Ang pag-gamit ng wikang Pilipino ay isang uring pagpapakita ng iyong nationalismo. Kung ganun man ang ating pag-iisip - eh bakit kaya sinulat ni Ginoong Jose Rizal sa wikang Espanyol ang Noli Me Tanghere and El Filibusterismo?

Nakakahiya bang talakayin itong problema ng mga pinoy sa wikang naiintindihan ng mga taga-ibang bansa? Kapag mabuting tao tayong mga Pinoy sa labas ng Pinas eh dapat wala tayong aabalahin. Ngunit may mga iba dyan na sumisira sa larawan ng mga Pinoy sa ibang bansa. Kahiya-hiya ang ginagawa ng ibang mga ito. Kayo ko po sinimulan ang diskusyong ito.

OT ON

sorry deliamaga...we have also other nationalities here sa SP so some can understand only in english..pero we are free to express it in english o di kaya sa tagalog(Filipino)..ang importante we express o binabahagi natin ang ating saluobin... di sa nagmamayabang tayo na magaling mag english kundi dahil mas feel nya maganda express ang kanyang nasaisip..don't feel "incriminated"..we are all equal here at SP...  ;)ok? 

OT OFF

hindi mo naintindihan yun sinabi ko. ang punto ko ay dapat siguro magtagalog kaysa yun nageenglish at sinabi pa ay ang mga pilipino sa ibang bansa ay walang moralidad. ano ang ibig sabihin nyan sa ibang lahi. kung eenglishin mo ay parang sinasabi mo na parang okay lang na mabasa nila.

kung sasabihin ng mga ibang lahi na ang mga pilipino ay magnanakaw dahil nga maraming naman magnanakaw katulad dito sa pratunam. o kaya sabihin ng isa na okay lang magka gf ng thai pero may asawa ka sa pinas. ano ibig sabihin yan kung mabasa ng ibang lahi? o mabasa ng boss mo na farang?

ang sa akin lang ay kung pwede magtagalog na lang. bakit mo kailangan sirain pa ang sirang imahe ng pilipinas? wala ba kayong ugaling nationalismo?
[/quote]

[iSDa(GO PORTAL)]

OT****

ok lang yan ms. deliamaga, wala po problema kung ano post dito sa mga forumers!

wala po tayong magagawa kung yong ang opinion sa ibang pinoy sa kapwa pinoy or sa ating bansa.  kasi deskarte nila yon.

wala din problema kung malaman ng buong universe ang pinagsasabi dito!

ang magagawa natin ay sana kung sino man ang meron magandang experience sa kapwa pinoy or sa ating bansa ay sana e-post din natin dito or sa ibang/bagong thread.

in english, so whoever has something good and nice to post about the pinoys and our beloved country the philippines, then post lang kayo ng post.

para ma balance ba! hehehehe

o diba?

end of OT******

peace post!

[marie]

Unang-una, hindi po ako Tagalog. Nahihirapan akong managalog - kaya't sa Ingles ang iba kong post. Susubukan kong tagalogin ang aking post - hindi pagkat nais kong maging-mas Nationalistic kung di kasi ninanais mo yun. 

Tagalog ang national language natin kahit saan ka sa pinas alam natin iyon. Hindi ibig sabihin na ang tagalog ay para sa tagalog lamang. Pinagaralan natin ang tagalog language simula ng nasa elementary tayo.

Ang pag-gamit ng wikang Pilipino ay isang uring pagpapakita ng iyong nationalismo. Kung ganun man ang ating pag-iisip - eh bakit kaya sinulat ni Ginoong Jose Rizal sa wikang Espanyol ang Noli Me Tanghere and El Filibusterismo?

Isinulat ni Jose Rizal para maintindihan ng mga Kastila. nasa history subject po yun. Huwag mo kwestyunin ang pagiging bayani ni Jose Rizal.

Nakakahiya bang talakayin itong problema ng mga pinoy sa wikang naiintindihan ng mga taga-ibang bansa? Kapag mabuting tao tayong mga Pinoy sa labas ng Pinas eh dapat wala tayong aabalahin. Ngunit may mga iba dyan na sumisira sa larawan ng mga Pinoy sa ibang bansa. Kahiya-hiya ang ginagawa ng ibang mga ito. Kayo ko po sinimulan ang diskusyong ito.

Yun nga ang punto ko. pwde naman po talakayin eto sa tagalog language. dapat nga mas mabuti purihin yun mga magandang nagawa ng mga OFW keysa sa mga masasamang gawain ng mga ibang pinoy.

Totoong nakakahiya yun mga pinaggagawa ng mga pilipinong magnanakaw lalo na nandidito tayo sa Thailand. Ano kaya ang magiging reaksyon mo kung sabihin ng mga Thai o ng mga farang na magnanakaw ang mga Pilipino dito sa Thailand? Sasagutin ba natin na e "suspended morality" kasi nasa ibang bansa ang mga Pilipino. ganun ba?

[Ms Demi Noor]

deliamaga - nabasa mo na ba yung mga balita tunkol sa mga nahuling mandurokot na Pinoy sa peryodiko nasyonal? Nabasa mo na ba yung mga onlayn forum ng mga dayuhan dito sa tilandya tungkol sa mga ito?  Alam po ng buong mundo na ang mga pinoy ay mandurokot - dahil sa iilang ito.

ngunit OT (awt op tapik) na po ito. 

Isinulat ni Jose Rizal para maintindihan ng mga Kastila. nasa history subject po yun. Huwag mo kwestyunin ang pagiging bayani ni Jose Rizal.

Yun nga ang punto ko. pwde naman po talakayin eto sa tagalog language. dapat nga mas mabuti purihin yun mga magandang nagawa ng mga OFW keysa sa mga masasamang gawain ng mga ibang pinoy.

Totoong nakakahiya yun mga pinaggagawa ng mga pilipinong magnanakaw lalo na nandidito tayo sa Thailand. Ano kaya ang magiging reaksyon mo kung sabihin ng mga Thai o ng mga farang na magnanakaw ang mga Pilipino dito sa Thailand? Sasagutin ba natin na e "suspended morality" kasi nasa ibang bansa ang mga Pilipino. ganun ba?

[Ongbak]

OT ON AGAIN

i second the motion MDM...   if you want to make new thread pls do so...not on this thread..as again the topic is suspended morality  

POST NO BILL! 

OT OUT AGAIN