Is religion your crutch or savior?

[ProudPinoy]

DID God created the first evil?

What do you think about this passage?

"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things." (Isaiah 45:7, King James Version)

Why did God created the first evil?

[Franz]

definitely Religion is neither a Crutch nor Savior. What about for those people who really live in the remotest place on Earth that do not even had the chance to know God's words through the Bible or have heard of any religion at all. Does that mean they will not be saved?

Some points to consider:
1. God is truly just (Job 34:12) and that He loves humanity (John 3:16)
2. Since He is just, he judges people according to their response to the light they received or has been revealed to them whether through the light of creation (Rom. 1), through the light of conscience (Rom. 2), or through the light of Christ (Rom. 3). If people respond to whatever light they do have, then God will send them the light of the gospel. Because no one has been kept in the dark about God's existence, we're all accountable directly to Him (Luke 12:47-48).
3. Jesus has His people in any groups (John 10:14) which He and we must bring to His flock

Totoo po yan. I asked this same question sa Pastor ng dati kong Company. He said God has his way of going through these people kahit liblib pa which totoo naman nangyayari from the time of Jesus and his Apostles up to this very day.

[yllorco]

DID God created the first evil?

What do you think about this passage?

"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things." (Isaiah 45:7, King James Version)

Why did God created the first evil?

Let me clarify some things here:
1.  The idea that "God created the first evil" is the result of misunderstanding God being the creator of everything, as in Isaiah 45:7.

2.  The original word (Heb. ra') for "evil" in the context of Isaiah 45:7 has the following meanings and translations: calamity (NKJ, ESV, NUA), disaster (NIB, NIV, NJB), good times (NLT), woe (NRS, RSV, TNK), but not moral or ethical evil, as in SIN, or evil one, as of Satan.  God did not create sin, and there is no record which indicates nor suggests that God did.  The text simply asserts God's omnipotence (as indicated in the whole chapter of Isaiah 45). 

2.  Please take note that when generic terms, such as "all", "everything", and superlative terms used in the Bible, they are best understood according to their immediate (usage) and wider contexts, and not from our understanding, worldview or logic.  The Biblical authors have their own style of writing, which are to be understood in their own terms.  It means that the clause "LORD does all these things" shouldn't be understood to include absolutely all things (material, ethical, etc.), such as what Satan does.

3.  Satan (originally named Lucifer, Day Star, or Morning Star in Isa 14:12; dragon, the old serpent and the Devil, the deceiver of the whole world in Revelation 12:3-4, 7, 9, 13, 16-17; 13:2, 4, 11; 16:13; 20:2) is the author/originator/creator of SIN, since there had been no other being who had rebelled God and violated His great law of Love, no wonder Satan was defeated and was cast down to earth from heaven after fighting Michael, the archangel.  His first recorded appearance to mankind was in the Garden of Eden, tempting Adam and Even to commit sin (Genesis 3:1-14).  Definitely, God didn't make Lucifer into Satan (meaning, adversary), but Lucifer made himself into God's adversary.  Lucifer, turned Satan, is the one responsible for his actions, sin, and everything he did, but not God.

4.  Rightly understanding the wider contextual theme of the great controversy between good and evil in the whole Bible, God, in His foreknowledge, already had known that Lucifer would become Satan and would create SIN.  No wonder the plan of salvation had been done long before the creation of the world, that God would send his Son to earth to be made flesh to live as an example of overcoming sin, to die as propitiation to sin, and be resurrected to overcome death.  He went to heaven and is coming back for the second time to get back His redeemed for an eternal life, and finally eradicate SIN and Satan forever (Revelation chapters 21 and 22).   Now this is the bigger picture and topic which needs more understanding.

[ProudPinoy]

DID God created the first evil?

What do you think about this passage?

"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things." (Isaiah 45:7, King James Version)

Why did God created the first evil?

Let me clarify some things here:
1.  The idea that "God created the first evil" is the result of misunderstanding God being the creator of everything, as in Isaiah 45:7.

2.  The original word (Heb. ra') for "evil" in the context of Isaiah 45:7 has the following meanings and translations: calamity (NKJ, ESV, NUA), disaster (NIB, NIV, NJB), good times (NLT), woe (NRS, RSV, TNK), but not moral or ethical evil, as in SIN, or evil one, as of Satan.  God did not create sin, and there is no record which indicates nor suggests that God did.  The text simply asserts God's omnipotence (as indicated in the whole chapter of Isaiah 45). 

2.  Please take note that when generic terms, such as "all", "everything", and superlative terms used in the Bible, they are best understood according to their immediate (usage) and wider contexts, and not from our understanding, worldview or logic.  The Biblical authors have their own style of writing, which are to be understood in their own terms.  It means that the clause "LORD does all these things" shouldn't be understood to include absolutely all things (material, ethical, etc.), such as what Satan does.

3.  Satan (originally named Lucifer, Day Star, or Morning Star in Isa 14:12; dragon, the old serpent and the Devil, the deceiver of the whole world in Revelation 12:3-4, 7, 9, 13, 16-17; 13:2, 4, 11; 16:13; 20:2) is the author/originator/creator of SIN, since there had been no other being who had rebelled God and violated His great law of Love, no wonder Satan was defeated and was cast down to earth from heaven after fighting Michael, the archangel.  His first recorded appearance to mankind was in the Garden of Eden, tempting Adam and Even to commit sin (Genesis 3:1-14).  Definitely, God didn't make Lucifer into Satan (meaning, adversary), but Lucifer made himself into God's adversary.  Lucifer, turned Satan, is the one responsible for his actions, sin, and everything he did, but not God.

4.  Rightly understanding the wider contextual theme of the great controversy between good and evil in the whole Bible, God, in His foreknowledge, already had known that Lucifer would become Satan and would create SIN.  No wonder the plan of salvation had been done long before the creation of the world, that God would send his Son to earth to be made flesh to live as an example of overcoming sin, to die as propitiation to sin, and be resurrected to overcome death.  He went to heaven and is coming back for the second time to get back His redeemed for an eternal life, and finally eradicate SIN and Satan forever (Revelation chapters 21 and 22).   Now this is the bigger picture and topic which needs more understanding.

Why did Lucifer rebelled against God? Who created the "evil feeling" inside him?

[yllorco]

DID God created the first evil?

What do you think about this passage?

"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things." (Isaiah 45:7, King James Version)

Why did God created the first evil?

Let me clarify some things here:
1.  The idea that "God created the first evil" is the result of misunderstanding God being the creator of everything, as in Isaiah 45:7.

2.  The original word (Heb. ra') for "evil" in the context of Isaiah 45:7 has the following meanings and translations: calamity (NKJ, ESV, NUA), disaster (NIB, NIV, NJB), good times (NLT), woe (NRS, RSV, TNK), but not moral or ethical evil, as in SIN, or evil one, as of Satan.  God did not create sin, and there is no record which indicates nor suggests that God did.  The text simply asserts God's omnipotence (as indicated in the whole chapter of Isaiah 45). 

2.  Please take note that when generic terms, such as "all", "everything", and superlative terms used in the Bible, they are best understood according to their immediate (usage) and wider contexts, and not from our understanding, worldview or logic.  The Biblical authors have their own style of writing, which are to be understood in their own terms.  It means that the clause "LORD does all these things" shouldn't be understood to include absolutely all things (material, ethical, etc.), such as what Satan does.

3.  Satan (originally named Lucifer, Day Star, or Morning Star in Isa 14:12; dragon, the old serpent and the Devil, the deceiver of the whole world in Revelation 12:3-4, 7, 9, 13, 16-17; 13:2, 4, 11; 16:13; 20:2) is the author/originator/creator of SIN, since there had been no other being who had rebelled God and violated His great law of Love, no wonder Satan was defeated and was cast down to earth from heaven after fighting Michael, the archangel.  His first recorded appearance to mankind was in the Garden of Eden, tempting Adam and Even to commit sin (Genesis 3:1-14).  Definitely, God didn't make Lucifer into Satan (meaning, adversary), but Lucifer made himself into God's adversary.  Lucifer, turned Satan, is the one responsible for his actions, sin, and everything he did, but not God.

4.  Rightly understanding the wider contextual theme of the great controversy between good and evil in the whole Bible, God, in His foreknowledge, already had known that Lucifer would become Satan and would create SIN.  No wonder the plan of salvation had been done long before the creation of the world, that God would send his Son to earth to be made flesh to live as an example of overcoming sin, to die as propitiation to sin, and be resurrected to overcome death.  He went to heaven and is coming back for the second time to get back His redeemed for an eternal life, and finally eradicate SIN and Satan forever (Revelation chapters 21 and 22).   Now this is the bigger picture and topic which needs more understanding.

Why did Lucifer rebelled against God? Who created the "evil feeling" inside him?

Good question, however, not all questions are satisfactorily answerable even if we force the Bible, because there is not just enough concrete/definite answer.

Please carefully read and understand the following passage from Isaiah 14:
Verses:
 12 " How you are fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How you are cut down to the ground, You who weakened the nations!
 13 For you have said in your heart: 'I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God; I will also sit on the mount of the congregation On the farthest sides of the north;
 14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds, I will be like the Most High.'
 15 Yet you shall be brought down to Sheol, To the lowest depths of the Pit.

Out of the above quoted passage, we may glean some connotation:
1.  Verse 13-14 - seems to be the reason for betrayal or rebellion:
     a.  He wanted to exalt his throne above the starts of God - suggests that he wanted to be like the most high God, sitting on His throne of God which is on the mount of congregation where gathering is for worship or Mount Zion in Heaven located on the north part of the earth (biblical descriptive style).

     b.  He simply wants to be like the Most High--meaning, to be like God

2.  His pride caused his feeling.  Everybody must have known that feeling is the result of thoughts.  Lucifer's feeling was the result of his proud thought to be like God, and the more his bad feeling grew when his pride was hurt that he simply rebelled and gathered his own angels and fought against Michael's angels (Revelation 12).  Can you imagine how that bad feeling gradually grew out of his proud thought until it became war?

3.  Please take note that after God created mankind, He gave us the freedom of choice, including our thoughts and feelings, otherwise we would have been like robots in all our thoughts and feelings.  (Rhetorical question for thinking only: Please consider if your father or somebody else, even God, created your feeling when you first loved your girlfriend/boyfriend?)

Question:  Should God be responsible for Satan's bad feeling?  Did God create Satan's feeling? 

[yllorco]

I will give you a more difficult problem.  How would you explain the following text?

Exodus 9:12 - But the LORD hardened the heart of Pharaoh; and he did not heed them, just as the LORD had spoken to Moses. (Cf. Exo 10:1, 10; 14:8 ).

[Bi Co La Na]

pede poh bhang maginvite dito ng pastors from inglesia ni soriano at inglesia ni manalo?

maganda rin malaman natin ang side nila.

BTW, adventist po ako...

[ProudPinoy]

DID God created the first evil?

What do you think about this passage?

"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things." (Isaiah 45:7, King James Version)

Why did God created the first evil?

Let me clarify some things here:
1.  The idea that "God created the first evil" is the result of misunderstanding God being the creator of everything, as in Isaiah 45:7.

2.  The original word (Heb. ra') for "evil" in the context of Isaiah 45:7 has the following meanings and translations: calamity (NKJ, ESV, NUA), disaster (NIB, NIV, NJB), good times (NLT), woe (NRS, RSV, TNK), but not moral or ethical evil, as in SIN, or evil one, as of Satan.  God did not create sin, and there is no record which indicates nor suggests that God did.  The text simply asserts God's omnipotence (as indicated in the whole chapter of Isaiah 45). 

2.  Please take note that when generic terms, such as "all", "everything", and superlative terms used in the Bible, they are best understood according to their immediate (usage) and wider contexts, and not from our understanding, worldview or logic.  The Biblical authors have their own style of writing, which are to be understood in their own terms.  It means that the clause "LORD does all these things" shouldn't be understood to include absolutely all things (material, ethical, etc.), such as what Satan does.

3.  Satan (originally named Lucifer, Day Star, or Morning Star in Isa 14:12; dragon, the old serpent and the Devil, the deceiver of the whole world in Revelation 12:3-4, 7, 9, 13, 16-17; 13:2, 4, 11; 16:13; 20:2) is the author/originator/creator of SIN, since there had been no other being who had rebelled God and violated His great law of Love, no wonder Satan was defeated and was cast down to earth from heaven after fighting Michael, the archangel.  His first recorded appearance to mankind was in the Garden of Eden, tempting Adam and Even to commit sin (Genesis 3:1-14).  Definitely, God didn't make Lucifer into Satan (meaning, adversary), but Lucifer made himself into God's adversary.  Lucifer, turned Satan, is the one responsible for his actions, sin, and everything he did, but not God.

4.  Rightly understanding the wider contextual theme of the great controversy between good and evil in the whole Bible, God, in His foreknowledge, already had known that Lucifer would become Satan and would create SIN.  No wonder the plan of salvation had been done long before the creation of the world, that God would send his Son to earth to be made flesh to live as an example of overcoming sin, to die as propitiation to sin, and be resurrected to overcome death.  He went to heaven and is coming back for the second time to get back His redeemed for an eternal life, and finally eradicate SIN and Satan forever (Revelation chapters 21 and 22).   Now this is the bigger picture and topic which needs more understanding.

Why did Lucifer rebelled against God? Who created the "evil feeling" inside him?

Good question, however, not all questions are satisfactorily answerable even if we force the Bible, because there is not just enough concrete/definite answer.

Please carefully read and understand the following passage from Isaiah 14:
Verses:
 12 " How you are fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How you are cut down to the ground, You who weakened the nations!
 13 For you have said in your heart: 'I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God; I will also sit on the mount of the congregation On the farthest sides of the north;
 14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds, I will be like the Most High.'
 15 Yet you shall be brought down to Sheol, To the lowest depths of the Pit.

Out of the above quoted passage, we may glean some connotation:
1.  Verse 13-14 - seems to be the reason for betrayal or rebellion:
     a.  He wanted to exalt his throne above the starts of God - suggests that he wanted to be like the most high God, sitting on His throne of God which is on the mount of congregation where gathering is for worship or Mount Zion in Heaven located on the north part of the earth (biblical descriptive style).

     b.  He simply wants to be like the Most High--meaning, to be like God

2.  His pride caused his feeling.  Everybody must have known that feeling is the result of thoughts.  Lucifer's feeling was the result of his proud thought to be like God, and the more his bad feeling grew when his pride was hurt that he simply rebelled and gathered his own angels and fought against Michael's angels (Revelation 12).  Can you imagine how that bad feeling gradually grew out of his proud thought until it became war?

3.  Please take note that after God created mankind, He gave us the freedom of choice, including our thoughts and feelings, otherwise we would have been like robots in all our thoughts and feelings.  (Rhetorical question for thinking only: Please consider if your father or somebody else, even God, created your feeling when you first loved your girlfriend/boyfriend?)

Question:  Should God be responsible for Satan's bad feeling?  Did God create Satan's feeling? 

His pride caused his feeling.  Everybody must have known that feeling is the result of thoughts.  Lucifer's feeling was the result of his proud thought to be like God, and the more his bad feeling grew when his pride was hurt that he simply rebelled and gathered his own angels and fought against Michael's angels (Revelation 12).

Why did God create "Pride". Did he/she overlook the fact that it might result to creation of the "first evil"?

Question:  Should God be responsible for Satan's bad feeling?  Did God create Satan's feeling?  

I'll answer this once I read your answer to my question.

I will give you a more difficult problem.  How would you explain the following text?

[/quote]
Exodus 9:12 - But the LORD hardened the heart of Pharaoh; and he did not heed them, just as the LORD had spoken to Moses. (Cf. Exo 10:1, 10; 14:8 ).
[/quote]

That's difficult.However,the better question is, "Why is Moses nowhere to be found on pages of Egyptian history books?"

[yllorco]

pede poh bhang maginvite dito ng pastors from inglesia ni soriano at inglesia ni manalo?

maganda rin malaman natin ang side nila.

BTW, adventist po ako...

Sige, mas maganda, para malaman natin ung side nila at method of interpretation.  I believe that truth can be viewed in different perspectives.

[yllorco]

DID God created the first evil?

What do you think about this passage?

"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things." (Isaiah 45:7, King James Version)

Why did God created the first evil?

Let me clarify some things here:
1.  The idea that "God created the first evil" is the result of misunderstanding God being the creator of everything, as in Isaiah 45:7.

2.  The original word (Heb. ra') for "evil" in the context of Isaiah 45:7 has the following meanings and translations: calamity (NKJ, ESV, NUA), disaster (NIB, NIV, NJB), good times (NLT), woe (NRS, RSV, TNK), but not moral or ethical evil, as in SIN, or evil one, as of Satan.  God did not create sin, and there is no record which indicates nor suggests that God did.  The text simply asserts God's omnipotence (as indicated in the whole chapter of Isaiah 45). 

2.  Please take note that when generic terms, such as "all", "everything", and superlative terms used in the Bible, they are best understood according to their immediate (usage) and wider contexts, and not from our understanding, worldview or logic.  The Biblical authors have their own style of writing, which are to be understood in their own terms.  It means that the clause "LORD does all these things" shouldn't be understood to include absolutely all things (material, ethical, etc.), such as what Satan does.

3.  Satan (originally named Lucifer, Day Star, or Morning Star in Isa 14:12; dragon, the old serpent and the Devil, the deceiver of the whole world in Revelation 12:3-4, 7, 9, 13, 16-17; 13:2, 4, 11; 16:13; 20:2) is the author/originator/creator of SIN, since there had been no other being who had rebelled God and violated His great law of Love, no wonder Satan was defeated and was cast down to earth from heaven after fighting Michael, the archangel.  His first recorded appearance to mankind was in the Garden of Eden, tempting Adam and Even to commit sin (Genesis 3:1-14).  Definitely, God didn't make Lucifer into Satan (meaning, adversary), but Lucifer made himself into God's adversary.  Lucifer, turned Satan, is the one responsible for his actions, sin, and everything he did, but not God.

4.  Rightly understanding the wider contextual theme of the great controversy between good and evil in the whole Bible, God, in His foreknowledge, already had known that Lucifer would become Satan and would create SIN.  No wonder the plan of salvation had been done long before the creation of the world, that God would send his Son to earth to be made flesh to live as an example of overcoming sin, to die as propitiation to sin, and be resurrected to overcome death.  He went to heaven and is coming back for the second time to get back His redeemed for an eternal life, and finally eradicate SIN and Satan forever (Revelation chapters 21 and 22).   Now this is the bigger picture and topic which needs more understanding.

Why did Lucifer rebelled against God? Who created the "evil feeling" inside him?

Good question, however, not all questions are satisfactorily answerable even if we force the Bible, because there is not just enough concrete/definite answer.

Please carefully read and understand the following passage from Isaiah 14:
Verses:
 12 " How you are fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How you are cut down to the ground, You who weakened the nations!
 13 For you have said in your heart: 'I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God; I will also sit on the mount of the congregation On the farthest sides of the north;
 14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds, I will be like the Most High.'
 15 Yet you shall be brought down to Sheol, To the lowest depths of the Pit.

Out of the above quoted passage, we may glean some connotation:
1.  Verse 13-14 - seems to be the reason for betrayal or rebellion:
     a.  He wanted to exalt his throne above the starts of God - suggests that he wanted to be like the most high God, sitting on His throne of God which is on the mount of congregation where gathering is for worship or Mount Zion in Heaven located on the north part of the earth (biblical descriptive style).

     b.  He simply wants to be like the Most High--meaning, to be like God

2.  His pride caused his feeling.  Everybody must have known that feeling is the result of thoughts.  Lucifer's feeling was the result of his proud thought to be like God, and the more his bad feeling grew when his pride was hurt that he simply rebelled and gathered his own angels and fought against Michael's angels (Revelation 12).  Can you imagine how that bad feeling gradually grew out of his proud thought until it became war?

3.  Please take note that after God created mankind, He gave us the freedom of choice, including our thoughts and feelings, otherwise we would have been like robots in all our thoughts and feelings.  (Rhetorical question for thinking only: Please consider if your father or somebody else, even God, created your feeling when you first loved your girlfriend/boyfriend?)

Question:  Should God be responsible for Satan's bad feeling?  Did God create Satan's feeling? 

His pride caused his feeling.  Everybody must have known that feeling is the result of thoughts.  Lucifer's feeling was the result of his proud thought to be like God, and the more his bad feeling grew when his pride was hurt that he simply rebelled and gathered his own angels and fought against Michael's angels (Revelation 12).

Why did God create "Pride". Did he/she overlook the fact that it might result to creation of the "first evil"?

Question:  Should God be responsible for Satan's bad feeling?  Did God create Satan's feeling?  

I'll answer this once I read your answer to my question.

I will give you a more difficult problem.  How would you explain the following text?

Exodus 9:12 - But the LORD hardened the heart of Pharaoh; and he did not heed them, just as the LORD had spoken to Moses. (Cf. Exo 10:1, 10; 14:8 ).
[/quote]

That's difficult.However,the better question is, "Why is Moses nowhere to be found on pages of Egyptian history books?"

[/quote]
What made you suppose God created pride?

I'm not discussing your last question about Moses being not found in the pages of Egyptian history books, for the reason that it's outside the Bible.  I could speculate like many of the theologians, but it won't help solve the problem, though.  If you want you may drown yourself with much evidence in history, such as http://www.biblehistory.net/Moses_Pharaoh.pdf

Note: I'm not discussing something for polemical purposes, but something biblical (not so much theological).  I feel happy to deal with any questions which is of biblical nature.

The reason I ask a question about hardening Pharaoh's heart is to open our minds to understand that God is not the Creator of SIN as Satan is nor responsible for Pharaoh's hardening of heart, which has full of proof.

[ProudPinoy]

DID God created the first evil?

What do you think about this passage?

"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things." (Isaiah 45:7, King James Version)

Why did God created the first evil?

Let me clarify some things here:
1.  The idea that "God created the first evil" is the result of misunderstanding God being the creator of everything, as in Isaiah 45:7.

2.  The original word (Heb. ra') for "evil" in the context of Isaiah 45:7 has the following meanings and translations: calamity (NKJ, ESV, NUA), disaster (NIB, NIV, NJB), good times (NLT), woe (NRS, RSV, TNK), but not moral or ethical evil, as in SIN, or evil one, as of Satan.  God did not create sin, and there is no record which indicates nor suggests that God did.  The text simply asserts God's omnipotence (as indicated in the whole chapter of Isaiah 45). 

2.  Please take note that when generic terms, such as "all", "everything", and superlative terms used in the Bible, they are best understood according to their immediate (usage) and wider contexts, and not from our understanding, worldview or logic.  The Biblical authors have their own style of writing, which are to be understood in their own terms.  It means that the clause "LORD does all these things" shouldn't be understood to include absolutely all things (material, ethical, etc.), such as what Satan does.

3.  Satan (originally named Lucifer, Day Star, or Morning Star in Isa 14:12; dragon, the old serpent and the Devil, the deceiver of the whole world in Revelation 12:3-4, 7, 9, 13, 16-17; 13:2, 4, 11; 16:13; 20:2) is the author/originator/creator of SIN, since there had been no other being who had rebelled God and violated His great law of Love, no wonder Satan was defeated and was cast down to earth from heaven after fighting Michael, the archangel.  His first recorded appearance to mankind was in the Garden of Eden, tempting Adam and Even to commit sin (Genesis 3:1-14).  Definitely, God didn't make Lucifer into Satan (meaning, adversary), but Lucifer made himself into God's adversary.  Lucifer, turned Satan, is the one responsible for his actions, sin, and everything he did, but not God.

4.  Rightly understanding the wider contextual theme of the great controversy between good and evil in the whole Bible, God, in His foreknowledge, already had known that Lucifer would become Satan and would create SIN.  No wonder the plan of salvation had been done long before the creation of the world, that God would send his Son to earth to be made flesh to live as an example of overcoming sin, to die as propitiation to sin, and be resurrected to overcome death.  He went to heaven and is coming back for the second time to get back His redeemed for an eternal life, and finally eradicate SIN and Satan forever (Revelation chapters 21 and 22).   Now this is the bigger picture and topic which needs more understanding.

Why did Lucifer rebelled against God? Who created the "evil feeling" inside him?

Good question, however, not all questions are satisfactorily answerable even if we force the Bible, because there is not just enough concrete/definite answer.

Please carefully read and understand the following passage from Isaiah 14:
Verses:
 12 " How you are fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How you are cut down to the ground, You who weakened the nations!
 13 For you have said in your heart: 'I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God; I will also sit on the mount of the congregation On the farthest sides of the north;
 14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds, I will be like the Most High.'
 15 Yet you shall be brought down to Sheol, To the lowest depths of the Pit.

Out of the above quoted passage, we may glean some connotation:
1.  Verse 13-14 - seems to be the reason for betrayal or rebellion:
     a.  He wanted to exalt his throne above the starts of God - suggests that he wanted to be like the most high God, sitting on His throne of God which is on the mount of congregation where gathering is for worship or Mount Zion in Heaven located on the north part of the earth (biblical descriptive style).

     b.  He simply wants to be like the Most High--meaning, to be like God

2.  His pride caused his feeling.  Everybody must have known that feeling is the result of thoughts.  Lucifer's feeling was the result of his proud thought to be like God, and the more his bad feeling grew when his pride was hurt that he simply rebelled and gathered his own angels and fought against Michael's angels (Revelation 12).  Can you imagine how that bad feeling gradually grew out of his proud thought until it became war?

3.  Please take note that after God created mankind, He gave us the freedom of choice, including our thoughts and feelings, otherwise we would have been like robots in all our thoughts and feelings.  (Rhetorical question for thinking only: Please consider if your father or somebody else, even God, created your feeling when you first loved your girlfriend/boyfriend?)

Question:  Should God be responsible for Satan's bad feeling?  Did God create Satan's feeling? 

His pride caused his feeling.  Everybody must have known that feeling is the result of thoughts.  Lucifer's feeling was the result of his proud thought to be like God, and the more his bad feeling grew when his pride was hurt that he simply rebelled and gathered his own angels and fought against Michael's angels (Revelation 12).

Why did God create "Pride". Did he/she overlook the fact that it might result to creation of the "first evil"?

Question:  Should God be responsible for Satan's bad feeling?  Did God create Satan's feeling?  

I'll answer this once I read your answer to my question.

I will give you a more difficult problem.  How would you explain the following text?

Exodus 9:12 - But the LORD hardened the heart of Pharaoh; and he did not heed them, just as the LORD had spoken to Moses. (Cf. Exo 10:1, 10; 14:8 ).

That's difficult.However,the better question is, "Why is Moses nowhere to be found on pages of Egyptian history books?"

[/quote]
What made you suppose God created pride?

I'm not discussing your last question about Moses being not found in the pages of Egyptian history books, for the reason that it's outside the Bible.  I could speculate like many of the theologians, but it won't help solve the problem, though.  If you want you may drown yourself with much evidence in history, such as http://www.biblehistory.net/Moses_Pharaoh.pdf

Note: I'm not discussing something for polemical purposes, but something biblical (not so much theological).  I feel happy to deal with any questions which is of biblical nature.

The reason I ask a question about hardening Pharaoh's heart is to open our minds to understand that God is not the Creator of SIN as Satan is nor responsible for Pharaoh's hardening of heart, which has full of proof.
[/quote]


If Satan is responsible for the hardening of Pharaoh's heart,who is responsible for the hardening of Satan's heart?

What made you suppose God created pride?

Your statement said that God didn't create the first evil inside Satan's heart. It was his pride. Then,it is safe to say that

God is responsible for Satan's bad feeling.
God creates Satan's feeling.

[yllorco]

DID God created the first evil?

What do you think about this passage?

"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things." (Isaiah 45:7, King James Version)

Why did God created the first evil?

Let me clarify some things here:
1.  The idea that "God created the first evil" is the result of misunderstanding God being the creator of everything, as in Isaiah 45:7.

2.  The original word (Heb. ra') for "evil" in the context of Isaiah 45:7 has the following meanings and translations: calamity (NKJ, ESV, NUA), disaster (NIB, NIV, NJB), good times (NLT), woe (NRS, RSV, TNK), but not moral or ethical evil, as in SIN, or evil one, as of Satan.  God did not create sin, and there is no record which indicates nor suggests that God did.  The text simply asserts God's omnipotence (as indicated in the whole chapter of Isaiah 45). 

2.  Please take note that when generic terms, such as "all", "everything", and superlative terms used in the Bible, they are best understood according to their immediate (usage) and wider contexts, and not from our understanding, worldview or logic.  The Biblical authors have their own style of writing, which are to be understood in their own terms.  It means that the clause "LORD does all these things" shouldn't be understood to include absolutely all things (material, ethical, etc.), such as what Satan does.

3.  Satan (originally named Lucifer, Day Star, or Morning Star in Isa 14:12; dragon, the old serpent and the Devil, the deceiver of the whole world in Revelation 12:3-4, 7, 9, 13, 16-17; 13:2, 4, 11; 16:13; 20:2) is the author/originator/creator of SIN, since there had been no other being who had rebelled God and violated His great law of Love, no wonder Satan was defeated and was cast down to earth from heaven after fighting Michael, the archangel.  His first recorded appearance to mankind was in the Garden of Eden, tempting Adam and Even to commit sin (Genesis 3:1-14).  Definitely, God didn't make Lucifer into Satan (meaning, adversary), but Lucifer made himself into God's adversary.  Lucifer, turned Satan, is the one responsible for his actions, sin, and everything he did, but not God.

4.  Rightly understanding the wider contextual theme of the great controversy between good and evil in the whole Bible, God, in His foreknowledge, already had known that Lucifer would become Satan and would create SIN.  No wonder the plan of salvation had been done long before the creation of the world, that God would send his Son to earth to be made flesh to live as an example of overcoming sin, to die as propitiation to sin, and be resurrected to overcome death.  He went to heaven and is coming back for the second time to get back His redeemed for an eternal life, and finally eradicate SIN and Satan forever (Revelation chapters 21 and 22).   Now this is the bigger picture and topic which needs more understanding.

Why did Lucifer rebelled against God? Who created the "evil feeling" inside him?

Good question, however, not all questions are satisfactorily answerable even if we force the Bible, because there is not just enough concrete/definite answer.

Please carefully read and understand the following passage from Isaiah 14:
Verses:
 12 " How you are fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How you are cut down to the ground, You who weakened the nations!
 13 For you have said in your heart: 'I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God; I will also sit on the mount of the congregation On the farthest sides of the north;
 14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds, I will be like the Most High.'
 15 Yet you shall be brought down to Sheol, To the lowest depths of the Pit.

Out of the above quoted passage, we may glean some connotation:
1.  Verse 13-14 - seems to be the reason for betrayal or rebellion:
     a.  He wanted to exalt his throne above the starts of God - suggests that he wanted to be like the most high God, sitting on His throne of God which is on the mount of congregation where gathering is for worship or Mount Zion in Heaven located on the north part of the earth (biblical descriptive style).

     b.  He simply wants to be like the Most High--meaning, to be like God

2.  His pride caused his feeling.  Everybody must have known that feeling is the result of thoughts.  Lucifer's feeling was the result of his proud thought to be like God, and the more his bad feeling grew when his pride was hurt that he simply rebelled and gathered his own angels and fought against Michael's angels (Revelation 12).  Can you imagine how that bad feeling gradually grew out of his proud thought until it became war?

3.  Please take note that after God created mankind, He gave us the freedom of choice, including our thoughts and feelings, otherwise we would have been like robots in all our thoughts and feelings.  (Rhetorical question for thinking only: Please consider if your father or somebody else, even God, created your feeling when you first loved your girlfriend/boyfriend?)

Question:  Should God be responsible for Satan's bad feeling?  Did God create Satan's feeling? 

His pride caused his feeling.  Everybody must have known that feeling is the result of thoughts.  Lucifer's feeling was the result of his proud thought to be like God, and the more his bad feeling grew when his pride was hurt that he simply rebelled and gathered his own angels and fought against Michael's angels (Revelation 12).

Why did God create "Pride". Did he/she overlook the fact that it might result to creation of the "first evil"?

Question:  Should God be responsible for Satan's bad feeling?  Did God create Satan's feeling?  

I'll answer this once I read your answer to my question.

I will give you a more difficult problem.  How would you explain the following text?

Exodus 9:12 - But the LORD hardened the heart of Pharaoh; and he did not heed them, just as the LORD had spoken to Moses. (Cf. Exo 10:1, 10; 14:8 ).

That's difficult.However,the better question is, "Why is Moses nowhere to be found on pages of Egyptian history books?"

What made you suppose God created pride?

I'm not discussing your last question about Moses being not found in the pages of Egyptian history books, for the reason that it's outside the Bible.  I could speculate like many of the theologians, but it won't help solve the problem, though.  If you want you may drown yourself with much evidence in history, such as http://www.biblehistory.net/Moses_Pharaoh.pdf

Note: I'm not discussing something for polemical purposes, but something biblical (not so much theological).  I feel happy to deal with any questions which is of biblical nature.

The reason I ask a question about hardening Pharaoh's heart is to open our minds to understand that God is not the Creator of SIN as Satan is nor responsible for Pharaoh's hardening of heart, which has full of proof.
[/quote]


If Satan is responsible for the hardening of Pharaoh's heart,who is responsible for the hardening of Satan's heart?

What made you suppose God created pride?

Your statement said that God didn't create the first evil inside Satan's heart. It was his pride. Then,it is safe to say that

God is responsible for Satan's bad feeling.
God creates Satan's feeling.


[/quote]

You didn't answer my questions.

If you honestly understood the intent of the writings and evidence above, you wouldn't have made such unfounded claims.  I'm afraid that's left for you to understand.  I wouldn't argue with these claims anymore.  It's been clearly explained above.

[ProudPinoy]

DID God created the first evil?

What do you think about this passage?

"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things." (Isaiah 45:7, King James Version)

Why did God created the first evil?

Let me clarify some things here:
1.  The idea that "God created the first evil" is the result of misunderstanding God being the creator of everything, as in Isaiah 45:7.

2.  The original word (Heb. ra') for "evil" in the context of Isaiah 45:7 has the following meanings and translations: calamity (NKJ, ESV, NUA), disaster (NIB, NIV, NJB), good times (NLT), woe (NRS, RSV, TNK), but not moral or ethical evil, as in SIN, or evil one, as of Satan.  God did not create sin, and there is no record which indicates nor suggests that God did.  The text simply asserts God's omnipotence (as indicated in the whole chapter of Isaiah 45). 

2.  Please take note that when generic terms, such as "all", "everything", and superlative terms used in the Bible, they are best understood according to their immediate (usage) and wider contexts, and not from our understanding, worldview or logic.  The Biblical authors have their own style of writing, which are to be understood in their own terms.  It means that the clause "LORD does all these things" shouldn't be understood to include absolutely all things (material, ethical, etc.), such as what Satan does.

3.  Satan (originally named Lucifer, Day Star, or Morning Star in Isa 14:12; dragon, the old serpent and the Devil, the deceiver of the whole world in Revelation 12:3-4, 7, 9, 13, 16-17; 13:2, 4, 11; 16:13; 20:2) is the author/originator/creator of SIN, since there had been no other being who had rebelled God and violated His great law of Love, no wonder Satan was defeated and was cast down to earth from heaven after fighting Michael, the archangel.  His first recorded appearance to mankind was in the Garden of Eden, tempting Adam and Even to commit sin (Genesis 3:1-14).  Definitely, God didn't make Lucifer into Satan (meaning, adversary), but Lucifer made himself into God's adversary.  Lucifer, turned Satan, is the one responsible for his actions, sin, and everything he did, but not God.

4.  Rightly understanding the wider contextual theme of the great controversy between good and evil in the whole Bible, God, in His foreknowledge, already had known that Lucifer would become Satan and would create SIN.  No wonder the plan of salvation had been done long before the creation of the world, that God would send his Son to earth to be made flesh to live as an example of overcoming sin, to die as propitiation to sin, and be resurrected to overcome death.  He went to heaven and is coming back for the second time to get back His redeemed for an eternal life, and finally eradicate SIN and Satan forever (Revelation chapters 21 and 22).   Now this is the bigger picture and topic which needs more understanding.

Why did Lucifer rebelled against God? Who created the "evil feeling" inside him?

Good question, however, not all questions are satisfactorily answerable even if we force the Bible, because there is not just enough concrete/definite answer.

Please carefully read and understand the following passage from Isaiah 14:
Verses:
 12 " How you are fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How you are cut down to the ground, You who weakened the nations!
 13 For you have said in your heart: 'I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God; I will also sit on the mount of the congregation On the farthest sides of the north;
 14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds, I will be like the Most High.'
 15 Yet you shall be brought down to Sheol, To the lowest depths of the Pit.

Out of the above quoted passage, we may glean some connotation:
1.  Verse 13-14 - seems to be the reason for betrayal or rebellion:
     a.  He wanted to exalt his throne above the starts of God - suggests that he wanted to be like the most high God, sitting on His throne of God which is on the mount of congregation where gathering is for worship or Mount Zion in Heaven located on the north part of the earth (biblical descriptive style).

     b.  He simply wants to be like the Most High--meaning, to be like God

2.  His pride caused his feeling.  Everybody must have known that feeling is the result of thoughts.  Lucifer's feeling was the result of his proud thought to be like God, and the more his bad feeling grew when his pride was hurt that he simply rebelled and gathered his own angels and fought against Michael's angels (Revelation 12).  Can you imagine how that bad feeling gradually grew out of his proud thought until it became war?

3.  Please take note that after God created mankind, He gave us the freedom of choice, including our thoughts and feelings, otherwise we would have been like robots in all our thoughts and feelings.  (Rhetorical question for thinking only: Please consider if your father or somebody else, even God, created your feeling when you first loved your girlfriend/boyfriend?)

Question:  Should God be responsible for Satan's bad feeling?  Did God create Satan's feeling? 

His pride caused his feeling.  Everybody must have known that feeling is the result of thoughts.  Lucifer's feeling was the result of his proud thought to be like God, and the more his bad feeling grew when his pride was hurt that he simply rebelled and gathered his own angels and fought against Michael's angels (Revelation 12).

Why did God create "Pride". Did he/she overlook the fact that it might result to creation of the "first evil"?

Question:  Should God be responsible for Satan's bad feeling?  Did God create Satan's feeling?  

I'll answer this once I read your answer to my question.

I will give you a more difficult problem.  How would you explain the following text?

Exodus 9:12 - But the LORD hardened the heart of Pharaoh; and he did not heed them, just as the LORD had spoken to Moses. (Cf. Exo 10:1, 10; 14:8 ).

That's difficult.However,the better question is, "Why is Moses nowhere to be found on pages of Egyptian history books?"

What made you suppose God created pride?

I'm not discussing your last question about Moses being not found in the pages of Egyptian history books, for the reason that it's outside the Bible.  I could speculate like many of the theologians, but it won't help solve the problem, though.  If you want you may drown yourself with much evidence in history, such as http://www.biblehistory.net/Moses_Pharaoh.pdf

Note: I'm not discussing something for polemical purposes, but something biblical (not so much theological).  I feel happy to deal with any questions which is of biblical nature.

The reason I ask a question about hardening Pharaoh's heart is to open our minds to understand that God is not the Creator of SIN as Satan is nor responsible for Pharaoh's hardening of heart, which has full of proof.

If Satan is responsible for the hardening of Pharaoh's heart,who is responsible for the hardening of Satan's heart?

What made you suppose God created pride?

Your statement said that God didn't create the first evil inside Satan's heart. It was his pride. Then,it is safe to say that

God is responsible for Satan's bad feeling.
God creates Satan's feeling.


[/quote]

You didn't answer my questions.

If you honestly understood the intent of the writings and evidence above, you wouldn't have made such unfounded claims.  I'm afraid that's left for you to understand.  I wouldn't argue with these claims anymore.  It's been clearly explained above.
[/quote]


Honestly,I did understand the intent of the writings. It is the NON-EXISTING evidence that I didn't. Where are they???